Kenneth W Daniels
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In which I'm disloyal to my fellow freethinkers

3/18/2012

 
In last week’s blog post, I asked whether loyalty is a virtue and concluded that truth must sometimes trump loyalty. This week I’ll try to put my money where my mouth is and explore an area where loyalty to my freethinking “in-group” is shaky.

Having spent the first 32 years of my life in an evangelical environment (including family, church, mission boarding school, college, seminary, missionary society), I have a mostly positive view of evangelicals as people. Certainly there are many exceptions, but on balance, I respect the warmth, sincerity, self-sacrifice, discipline, and love of many of the more earnest followers of Jesus. I attend my wife’s Bible church only very occasionally, perhaps three or four times a year for special occasions. One such special occasion was a recent “father-daughter desert” I went to with my thirteen-year-old daughter (and with my wife, who attended with her father). In addition to the food, there were some fun games and a talent show; a fun, wholesome time was had by all. Everyone was respectful, positive, and friendly, and there was a good mix of ages and gender (though not so much of race).

I mentally compared this experience with the one I had at a large weekend freethought convention I attended last fall. The respective goals of the two events were quite different, of course, so it’s probably unfair to compare them in any way, but I found myself struggling to identify with many of the presenters and attendees at the freethought convention. There were some families and a children’s program, but it seemed that most of the attendees were single; there were more men than women; almost everyone was white, and there were probably more middle-aged-and-above attendees than younger adults, with hardly any children. Many (not all) of the presenters made liberal use of expletives and focused a good deal of their ire on their religious competitors. We all received a complimentary condom in our welcome packet, and the evening social gatherings were centered around the hotel bar.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not speaking out against expletives, singleness, condoms, or drinking per se. What I’m trying to get at is a little more intangible. For many evangelicals like me, coming to the conclusion that we were mistaken in our evangelical beliefs is, relatively speaking, the easy part. The harder part is that we still appreciate the general warmth, family focus, and respectfulness of the evangelical community, qualities that are harder to find (though not altogether absent) in the freethinking community.

In a recent response to one of my blog posts, a believer referred to the following passage from John 6, suggesting there’s nowhere else to turn for those who leave Jesus:

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go?...”

Incidentally, I’ve been reading a long, fascinating e-book (An Examination of the Pearl) by Edwin Suominen, a struggling member of a tiny (about 100,000 members), little-known exclusivist Lutheran sect called Conservative Laestadianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Laestadianism). According to the author, the above passage from John 6 is often used by the Laestadian leadership to deter its members from leaving the sect (see location 1984), since its members are led to see only darkness outside its walls, even in the wider “mainstream” Christian community.

Getting back to the freethinking movement, I have no doubt that the perceived and/or actual culture of the freethought movement is one of the most important barriers to believers who might otherwise contemplate leaving their faith. “To whom shall we go? Certainly not to those family-unfriendly, foul-mouthed, arrogant, fornicating, drunken atheists!”

I’ll probably catch some flack for this from some of my fellow freethinkers, but as a long-time-evangelical-turned-unbeliever, it seems to me that struggling Christians are looking for a more comfortable landing pad than the cold, hard, unfamiliar ground they often hit on the other side of faith. I’m speaking on behalf of the doubting Christians who don’t particularly have a problem with other Christians or with the evangelical lifestyle but who simply doubt the tenets of their faith. I have in mind those who have placed a premium on sexual purity as believers and those whose social lives have been lived largely in the church, free of profanity or drunkenness or “worldliness” in general. For many longstanding members of the freethought movement, Christians like those I’ve described here seem to be from another planet, and that feeling goes in both directions.

I don’t have a ready solution to the hard-landing problem. I can’t necessarily expect those from Planet Wordly to change their lifestyle radically just to provide a softer landing to those coming in from Planet Purity. But somehow someone somewhere needs to be there for each new arrival, and the greeter needs to be someone the new arrival can connect with, trust, and have something in common with. It needs to be someone who’s at least sensitive to the gap in lifestyle choices between that of the typical earnest evangelical and that of the typical unbeliever. Keep in mind that many of these recent deconverts are struggling to maintain relationships with their believing family members. It’s already bad enough that they no longer share their most cherished beliefs in common with family any more; they don’t want to exacerbate matters any more than necessary by completely changing their lifestyle at the same time. I’m simply asking those from Planet Worldly to understand the predicament that new arrivals from Planet Purity find themselves in, to get a feel for where they are, and to meet them at that place. They’ve already sacrificed enough to give up what they believe; don’t expect them to adopt your lifestyle or your differing views on politics or morality. If an Orthodox Jew leaves his faith, don’t wave a ham sandwich in his face and expect him to give up his lifelong hangup over pork. If a conservative evangelical Christian leaves her faith, don’t litter your speech with expletives and tell sexually explicit jokes or share your sexual exploits. Of course, how you relate to former believers will depend on where they are and to what extent they continue to embrace elements of their former lifestyle.

That said, I’m not sure how effective the sensitivity I’m advocating really can be. I think some sensitivity can’t hurt, but the new arrivals are probably not going to be as comfortable with a Puritan “poser” as they would be with someone else who’s from a hybrid third planet that I’ll call “Planet Purity without Belief.” This is a sparsely populated planet of those who’ve left their faith but who retain more or less a similar lifestyle to the one they embraced on “Planet Purity with Belief.” Those who’ve deconverted and still inhabit “Planet Purity without Belief” have a unique perspective and set of experiences that can and should be used to help conservative believers who are transitioning out of faith.

As a general rule (which has its exceptions, of course), it seems that freethinkers and humanists are more concerned with structural/societal justice than with personal morality, while for conservative Christians it’s the other way around. Secular humanists couldn’t care less what anyone does in their bedroom, while they generally do care about avoiding war and providing justice for the poor, the oppressed, and the minorities. Vice versa for many American evangelicals.

Week after week in church services, congregations are enjoined to eschew the acts of the flesh and to cultivate personal virtues like the fruit of the Spirit in Galations 5:

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

By and large, those outside the church are not encouraged on a weekly basis to cultivate such virtues. A debate can be had as to which of the above admonitions should be heeded by us nonbelievers (I don’t know any freethinkers who engage in witchcraft, for example!), but it seems to me that we would do well to give some thought to our personal morality, just as we would like conservative evangelicals to give more thought to matters of social justice. Acts and words of kindness and patience, rather than outbursts of disdain toward those we disagree with, would go a long way to breaking down the mistrust that no doubt prevents many evangelicals from reaching out across the divide. Sensitivity to the mores of others, rather than their dismissal as “prudish,” would also no doubt help bridge that gap.

Just as religion is not monolithic (the Muslim Brotherhood and the Conservative Laestadians certainly wouldn’t get along!), neither is freethought. Though no doubt most are left of center, freethinkers are found at virtually every point along the political and moral spectrum. I don’t know whether I’ll ever feel fully comfortable in a typical freethought convention, and I’m sure I’m not the only former believer in that position. To be sure, I share much in common with the predominant freethought culture, but I also share much in common with my wife, family, and former coreligionists. It’s not a matter of which one is superior to the other; that could lead to endless debates. It’s more a matter of where we all find ourselves in this sometimes convoluted journey called life and what we can do to make the best of it, both for ourselves and for our fellow travelers in this journey. Perhaps as more and more evangelicals leave the faith for intellectual rather than for moral reasons, the population of “Planet Purity without Belief” will grow and will serve as a softer landing pad for those arriving from “Planet Purity with Belief.” I don’t envision this planet being populated with moral crusaders but with those who simply continue to feel comfortable embracing family values and cultivating personal virtue as they did during their years in the church. No doubt some on this planet will go on to migrate to Planet Wordly, and that’s fine with me (within reason), but I would hope that our numbers would be sufficient to form a community for those of us who find ourselves caught between Planet Purity (with Belief) and Planet Worldly (without Belief). 
Julia
3/18/2012 08:50:38 am

Another interesting post.
Seems to me the main barrier to 'free thinker' sorts of social groups looking in any sense similar to most other societal social groups is that to attend them is not only *not* seen as a virtuous endeavor, but actually could harm a person's reputation or standing in a community. For instance, to do so would almost certainly exclude the attendee from attaining any political office. I am quite certain that reasons such as these account for the gender imbalance in attendees, for example. A church based gathering, in contrast, is not even simply neutral, but is at the other end of the spectrum -- generally viewed as a worthy, admirable endeavor.

Ken Daniels
3/19/2012 03:27:44 am

Thanks, Julia--your point about anti-atheist discrimination is a good one. I'll include the following paragraph from my book to underscore your point:

"I am concerned by the marginalizing of unbelievers from public and social life. Both of my sons are involved in Boy Scouts, a nonsectarian organization that requires its members and leaders to believe in God. As long as you believe in Shiva, Zeus, Allah, Yahweh, or Jesus, you're in; but if you cannot declare your allegiance to any member of such a pantheon, you're out. For this reason I am ineligible for official participation in our troop, even though my moral character has not been questioned. A 2006 University of Minnesota survey found that Americans are more likely to vote for members of other races, recent immigrants, homosexuals, and Muslims than to vote for atheists (Edgell 2006). It is next to impossible to be a respected public skeptic of religion in the United States. Even in higher academia, thought by many to be a bastion of unbelief, only 23.4% of American college and university professors are atheists or agnostics (Gross and Simmons 2006, 4)."

Ken

Sam link
3/18/2012 09:47:17 am

Good points, Ken. I feel much the same way about my the fellows in my separation of church and state group -- our goal is not to end religion or prevent anyone from practicing their religion and yet our conversations often devolve into Christian bashing.

Having left the Christian community I think many of us in the freethinking community are just so relieved of the overwhelming guilt that came with things like swearing and drinking that we're so happy to do the with impunity! Also, its the common language of freethinkers in much the same way Christians have a common language.

In my evangelical days I often wished our church services could be a smidgen more secular ... All the "washed in the blood of the lamb" and "slain in the spirit" talk was off-putting to my worldly friends I would bring to church with me.

Perhaps more people are openly embracing planet worldly is because the inhabitants of planet purity are so darn rude to the rest of us!

Ken Daniels
3/19/2012 03:33:51 am

Thanks for your input, Sam. Yes, there's much to criticize about "Christianese," and there's been a fair bit of criticism leveled against Christian platitudes and cliches from *within* the church. To me, though, the rudest thing any human could suggest (or even think) is that there are other humans worthy of eternal damnation. There are rude atheists and rude theists, but all the "f" bombs in the world pale in comparison to the mere assent to the proposition that anyone, no matter how evil in this finite life, deserves an eternity of torment.

Julia
3/19/2012 04:07:10 am

Ken, I very much appreciate your phrase, "the mere assent to..." because I do not buy into any significance of the often-claimed, "Oh we are loving, nonjudgemental, inclusive Christians; as to issues of damnation/salvation, that is God's, not ours, to judge." Um, sorry but no; it is the very core of the religion and the "assent"/ simple acceptance/ belief in its reality is no less horrific.

Chris
3/18/2012 02:14:01 pm

I sympathize with your situation a great deal. Even though I don't have any problems cursing, drinking, listening to obnoxious metal music and having casual sex...I do know there is a time and a place for all things, and that being kind, considerate, loyal to your loved ones (like your spouse) and mannered go long way.

In my experience, the loss of the family-friendly atmosphere provided by the evangelical sub-culture can be compensated for by joining charitable groups, organizations centered around promoting educational or cultural endeavors, or similar clubs. People might have vast different views on sex, music, profanity and so on, but in the context of working together for a greater good people tend to be decent and well-behaved. It might also be worthwhile to look into clubs/events held by liberal christian denominations or secular humanist groups. Most liberal christian churches won't particularly care if you subscribe to their beliefs and will provide events that are aware of the needs of families.

Another option, one that I have thought have for a long time...has been to create a group that caters to ex-christians who long for community and a family friendly atmosphere for themselves and their kids. One that is open to diversity of opinion but emphasizes being kind and well-mannered. If a gap exists in our life, then it might be worthwhile to try to fill it ourselves.

Ken Daniels
3/19/2012 03:40:02 am

Thanks for your thoughts, Chris. Though my own lifestyle hasn't changed appreciably in the 12 years since my deconversion, my outlook on those who lead an alternate lifestyle has completely softened during these years, as long as any given lifestyle doesn't lead to harm to others. I guess it's just that, for those of us married with children, it's helpful to be able to get together with other families in a similar situation. Your idea is good, though it's very difficult (especially here in the Bible belt) to find other secular families nearby.

Erica
3/18/2012 10:37:24 pm

I was interested to read this post. This an interesting article on lifestyle differences:
http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/5-barna-update/188-faith-has-a-limited-effect-on-most-peoples-behavior

As an atheist homeschooling mom married to an atheist mathematician, the only people I know well enough to know their religion are other parents of young children and mathematicians. These people do not lead wild lives. They are fun, nice people. Virtually, none of these are people would go to an atheist convention, however. Why? Because they are too busy living, taking their kids to water parks or whatever, otherwise going about their lives. They use the weekends to rest and relax, go out with family or spouse, or get caught up on projects around the house.

As an example, my husband saw an advertisement that said Richard Dawkins was going to speaking somewhere nearby FOR FREE. My husband thought that was funny. He grew up as a vague theist and is now a vague atheist and what he said was, "Who on earth would PAY to hear Richard Dawkins talk?" He likes Dawkins okay, but clearly doesn't really get excited about going to see a famous atheist.

Basically, I think the people who are really into atheism are a different group from the majority of atheists. In my house, we tend to be pretty overwhelmed with keeping up with our young boys and the house and finding time for each other. If there were an atheist club, I'd probably never go because I always have gardening to do, or I need to take the dog to his obedience class, or a child to a birthday party, or get my exercise in. Also, I really don't have an urge to hang out with all atheists/agnostics. I prefer to make friends based on other common interests (like gardening or homeschooling).

I have been extremely active in my parent groups over the years, coordinating my stay-at-home mom group for 2 years, then founding my own homeschool group. So I think I use those as church alternatives, places for my kids and I to meet people.

We tried the Unitarians, and it wasn't for us.

If you want an atheist group to attract busy families, it's going to have to be really attractive and offer something these families can't find elsewhere. And I think it needs to be service based, like the best Christian churches are. The emphasis should be on helping the community and assisting those in the church during hard times.

As someone who grew up in an evangelical church (a former minister's daughter, no less), I do think there was a lot of hypocrisy, people putting on an act at church, when in their regular lives they might live quite differently. And the act is especially strong when around a minister.

Ken Daniels
3/19/2012 03:51:32 am

Erica,

I very much appreciate your perspective! I'm not likely to attend another freethought convention any time soon; much of what they strive for (e.g., separation of church and state) I applaud, but I just don't see my future in those kinds of activities. I'm glad you wrote, because you're a concrete example of an unbelieving family living productive lives in the real world, absent any acrimony or ax to grind. I wonder how many families are out there like yours. My fear is that the only face of atheism that most of the world sees is the activist, in-your-face type (there is a time for activism and confrontation, to be sure), and few believers have any clue that families like yours even exist. Maybe this is because those who are content to lead their own quiet lives don't have a voice. But then if they spoke out, they would be branded as belligerent, because the very act of presenting an alternative to Christianity is an affront! I guess there's no way to win, but I do hope that as time goes on, the number of families like yours will increase until the believing world begins to take notice that us unbelievers can be normal, happy, productive, moral people like anyone else--without having to yell in everyone's face!

Erica A.
3/25/2012 10:24:29 pm

Thanks, Ken. Let me set the record straight and say though that I may not have an ax to grind now, but when I was younger I DID have a lot of anger and resentment towards Christianity/Christians/religion. I try not to now. I went through a Buddhist phase a few years ago, and it helped me to get over some things. But I became an atheist at 15. Other than my family's disapproval, I didn't have a lot to lose. Your book/blog has helped me to appreciate the much more difficult journey that adults who become atheists have to take.

I think you should start an organization that reflects your vision to help new atheists! Maybe something that's online but also meets maybe once a month at a coffee shop or bookstore local to you.

I will say that I was in an ex-fundy group for a while many years ago on Yahoogroups. I didn't post much, but I read a lot of the posts, and they helped me to decide to passively "come out" to my extended family about my political and religous beliefs through my Facebook profile. I'm a total coward when it comes to my very opinionated extended family. Anyway, a messageboard can a be a great source of support. I can see that something in-person would be very good too.

Julia
3/18/2012 11:24:51 pm

I am enjoying these helpful additions to the conversation, and the latest from Erica sums up well why the comparison of the two sorts of goups is pretty much moot. A family like hers has no reason to attend a "free thinker" group and the explanations in her response make it even more clear why such a group of "free thinkers" is by definition never a diverse group of non-believers. I like the ideas for building life around family and other causes. The gap that remains, however, for people who are looking for understanding support from new friends because they are coming from a more severe sort of life change is a difficult one to fill because there are so few people who meet that description. Some of us may long for more than just putting the issue aside and focusing only on entirely separate things, but at the same time feel out of place in either a group with any lingering 'spirituality' (ie, Unitarian) or in the sort of angry militant anti-spirituality gatherings often associated with those who have never believed or have left faith at an early age.
Personally, I long to find others who, despite having felt we were being loving when we embraced Christianity, now see even the messages of Christianity being a loving and inclusive faith as a crushing horror, and even more so at times due to the hidden aspect that allows the horror mainstream acceptance.

Holly
3/19/2012 09:34:12 am

Well, I was thinking it might be interesting to take a trip to Washington D.C. this weekend to attend the Reason Rally, but am thinking I really don't need to do that unless I want to go to Washington D.C. for another reason and the Reason Rally I could stop by "if I got a chance." If that's the kind of thing that goes on at a freethought convention, I definitely would not fit in, nor would I feel comfortable. This was a really interesting blog and I appreciate your honesty Ken. I also appreciate Erica's perspective. I too am very busy with work and kids and home. After attending church for 30 years regularly, I have felt as if I need a replacement, but maybe I don't.
However, I strongly dislike the way that Atheists/Agnostics are percieved and would like to be a part of a positive movement for change. I don't know how to go about that though. Things never change without somebody speaking up and ruffling feathers are usually involved. Quietly going about one's life won't change anything. You seem to have struck a happy medium, Ken, although I'm sure even this cordially-written blog has ruffled some feathers and created some tension. The only thing I can think of is creating a group, and I think it would in some way have to be an Atheist/Agnostic group, that was heavily involved in community, family, and service activities that also was family friendly, but without yelling about religion or being confrontational.

Ken Daniels
3/19/2012 01:28:41 pm

Holly,

I appreciate your comments as always. I didn't intend to dissuade you from attending a major freethought rally; it's not like there were orgies or anything wild going on at the one I attended; it just wasn't the most family-friendly environment. It might be worth attending the Reason Rally, if for nothing else but to witness what's going on in the movement, and then maybe you can write back and share your observations. I had a mostly positive experience overall, though it was just that--probably a one-time experience to get a feel for what it's like, but a worthwhile experience nonetheless.

I really wish there were some resources to help identify freethinking families in the area and then to just get together to socialize and/or contribute somehow to the community. I've been to freethought pubs and churches and fellowships and conventions, but to quote U2, I still haven't what I'm looking for...

Mike
3/19/2012 12:49:22 pm

Nice post as usual, Ken. This is one of the many things that lifelong nontheists often overlook.

I'm two months out of the fold, and only now starting to get a real taste for what the conflict over values will be like with my Christian family and friends. It's not pretty, even though my intention is to change my values only with prudence, if at all.

More than that, I've found that my values, just like my beliefs, aren't easily accounted for without long reflection, and can't be directly changed.

And as emotionally charged as beliefs can be, it seems that values are even more so. This is certainly reflected within the Church, where you often see apologetics for the truth of Christianity, yet rarely an argument from social science about *why* its values are the most beneficial (it usually stops with, "Well, God made people, so he would know best for them, right?" and, "Oh, you follow a liberal egalitarian ethic of marriage? How's that working for ya?" complete with condescension)

If I stray beyond my values, I don't feel impending judgment. But I do still feel like I'm ignoring a warning to do something dangerous and foolish, like skiing in avalanche-prone terrain. But for me, the worst part is the loss of the respect of those whose opinions I (used to?) value the most.

I can't think of a way around this, other than investigation into a philosophical and empirical foundation for ethics, just like I did for belief. (well, I could always tightly control information -- i.e., live a double life -- but that's never worked for me. :)

Steve in Bozeman, MT link
4/5/2012 04:13:28 am

Wow, just heard of your book, and just started reading it, read your website, found your blog. So great! I'm a former Church of the Nazarene evangelical, Naz. preacher's son, I went to Trevecca Naz. Univ in Nashville, traveled as keyboard player for a touring nationwide gospel band, then became minister of music in several churches over the next few years (along with a secular career), but all along I was a closeted gay man (only close friends knew). I eventually got fired from a min. of music position when the preacher found out my double lifestyle, etc. THEN I began searching WHERE does this biblical bigotry against gays come from, and totally unintentionally my religion/Christianity just melted away as I discovered how so much of the Bible is allegory to Egyptology, sun worship, etc. Anyway, enjjoying your book and hope to keep in touch!

Jeremy
5/9/2012 07:43:22 am

Hi Ken,

I know I'm late to the party with this comment, but I just wanted to let you know that I so very much appreciate what you stated here. I recently deconverted and consider myself an atheist now. I have been slowly revealing that change to people in my life (wife, mother, sister, etc.) and so I'm still going through the big stuff right now. Your book has been such an inspiration to me, and I am now inspired by your blog. Thank you for being thoughtful and concerned about all of this...you probably help many more people than you realize.

In regards to this topic: I am exactly in your boat, with somewhat of a dissatisfaction for the current lack of cohesive family-friendly support and social groups for those outside of the pale of religion. I would not even know where to turn in my town for regular fellowship and connectedness with likeminded people. I believe that is crucial to surviving in the world: being a part of a group that thinks like you do. Losing Christianity is, in essence, losing an entire subculture wherein one could connect with the world based on very similar beliefs and outlooks on life.

I have also been wondering about how, as atheists, we are more than likely proclaiming to not have a belief in any particular god...or, in other words, we like to use the metaphor of "atheism is as much a belief as not playing golf is a hobby". But when we gather together in freethought meetings and experience shared mindsets and goals, we are making that "not playing golf" into more than that. At least, that's how it seems to me. Creating gatherings and meetings based on "lack of religion" or "anti-religion" is akin to being a religion unto itself. And I don't think family men and women, like you or me, are very much drawn to hearing a weekly barrage of cynicism toward mainstream religion, if one were to create a freethought group based on the lack of belief or faith alone. So it seems a beneficial freethought group capable of being sustained and being useful to attendees would be one focused on moving on PAST the religions we grew up in, and on TOWARD common goals such as charity work, education and rearing of our kids, recovery from addictions and harmful behaviors (whether related to past religious faith or not), social interaction, food, and so on. All that said, it is almost like we need CHURCH...just without the religious dogma and harmful authoritarian abuse.

I'd love to be able to look into starting a support group in my own town...I don't think there are really many freethought groups around here, being a conservative town and all, but I would love to create a safe place for hurting ex-believers to gather for support and social interaction. That is, once my "coming out" as a non-believer is also done.

Thank you again, Ken, for what you do and for making your book and blog available to those in need.

Jeremy


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    Author

    Kenneth W. Daniels (1968-), son of evangelical missionaries, is the author of Why I Believed: Reflections of a Former Missionary. He grew up in Africa and returned as an adult to serve with Wycliffe Bible Translators in Niger on the edge of the Sahara Desert. While studying the Bible on the mission field, he came to doubt the message he had traveled across the world to bring to a nomadic camel-herding ethnic group. Though he lost his faith and as a result left Africa in 2000, he remains part of a conservative Christian family. He currently resides with his wife and three children in suburban Dallas, TX, where he works as a software developer.

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